Pretty soon.

 

What are you intending on dropping?

 

Music.

 

Do you want to speak on that newer stuff at all?

 

Nope. I don't. I want to keep it. I want to let it speak for itself. So when it's out, it'll be out. It'll be out before the end of the year. That's all I'll say about it.

 

Okay. Was music your first form of self-expression in a creative way?

 

No.

 

Where did it start?

 

It started with dancing. I think when I was like two like my mom would have music on all the time in the living room and there's like this one day she told me I danced for eight hours. She put some Jamiroquai on and I just wouldn't fucking stop. Like you just kept going and I couldn't walk the next day. So I don't know. Am I being too loud?

 

No.

 

Okay. Yeah. So that was definitely the first time I can recall being told about me being expressive in an artistic way, and then I liked acting a lot. I remember I think I was in the third grade and we were doing this play. I got like this role that only had like one line, but I was an understudy for a role that had like four lines, and I was like I just wanted the role. It was like the mayor, like the role was like the mayor of this town or some shit and the kid who played the mayor got sick like the day of and I was like let's go, like I got three more lines. Let's go. So I think I like the attention. I don't know if I like the attention outside of what I'm sharing, you know like outside of when I'm on stage, but I definitely like the ability to express myself and bring people who are there attending a sense of I don't know whatever I'm expressing if it's pain, if it's joy, if it's humor, if it's sadness. I feel when we're connected to people when I'm in that space then when I am like having small talk about some shit that does not really fucking matter.

 

Do you feel like there's an element of you kind of being alone up there, right? But you feel more connected to people when you're alone, it sounds like.

 

Yeah. It's a weird like I don't know if dichotomy is applicable but it's it's a weird maybe more or so juxtaposition of like sometimes I feel more connected to people when I'm alone and I'm writing something that I know is going to have an impact because I know it's coming from a real place. Like when I'm in my room alone and I'm writing to a beat and I look at the clock in four hours have gone by. It's like wow, I feel so much more connected to everybody because I feel like this is something that resonates in a deeper level. 

 

Do you feel like your stage persona and who you are in day to day life varies from each other? 

 

I try not to let it, but yeah I do. Sometimes I really don't want to talk to people you know. I think sometimes we all feel that way. The job I have right now demands personal connection so it's a blurry line of like when I actually turn it off. I don't really think I do a lot lately. I think it's all kind of just continuing to come out wherever I am.

 

The people that you collaborate with most... how did that start? Where did you meet them? I saw that you had some songs with Headband Henny and Benna.

 

Yeah okay there's a couple different stories there. Benna, my guy, Mike Enyunga, man that's my guy. He's like the first guy in the vine I really started really working with. I was 18 maybe 19 I had my first apartment in the vine neighborhood this is like seven years ago and Rupert's, rest in peace. Did you ever go to Rupert's?

 

No, I've heard about Rupert's though.

 

It was like the best place ever. Like they had like open mics every Wednesday I think and you could just like call like a couple hours before but yo I want the 10 o'clock slot or the 11 o'clock slot and you show up and there were ping pong tables in there and everyone was chill and like there were only like six people in the crowd it didn't matter. You know you could go and play whatever genre music you wanted to and you could get like three claps. You know people would talk over your whole set and it wasn't about getting a response it was about getting over that hump of like not caring about what people thought. So Mike and I used to go to those and do covers of like Kendrick and Kanye West and Chance the rapper and then like we'd mix in a couple of our own originals and it sounded like shit. Him and I started a band called Purple Lemurs and we were in that band for four or five years on and off and I'm still working with Mike today, we're in the Golden Ratio together now. It's a lot of fun. Henry used to live over there at 618 with me and we made Oak Street there two years ago and yeah I was just like hey man you should just start booking sessions with Sam Peters and he did and we made that song and now we're working on more music together. 

 

Nice. So maybe you can go more in depth about the Golden Ratio and who's involved in that or your part in it.

 

Yeah, totally. Well it's long-list it's Ardea/Sam Peters. Sam Eflin. Lachlan McClarvy I can't say his last name. Lindsay Friedman aka Shai-lee, Benna, Andy Santa Maria, Luis Felipe Santos, Catalina Maria Gonzalez I don't know whenever you meet her she says her full name. On like a visual art direction Tip and Em, or Emma Weinman. I think that's everybody and me. We were booking sessions with Sam and the basement over there on Oak Street and then we just kept making music over the last two years. Last four years actually and then we just kind of look back and we're like these five songs are cool, we should release someone to the name Golden Ratio because that's the name of the house we're in. It's on homage to the house scene but it's also something I don't think I've seen before out of the neighborhood is like someone takes a house and makes it like a group and then sees where that goes like it's plants those seeds as a foundation for the artists as individuals and as the group you know that seems like something fresh and something new to bring to the neighborhood.

 

How would you describe like the Kalamazoo show scene? DIY. What do you like about it, what do you want to see different about it?

 

I love that everyone has a lane you know. I mean there are certain shows where I'm like oh rapping isn't going to work and then I do it and then everyone's like oh that was tight of fuck, you know. I think there's no real category that it fits into which I think is really important for anyone who wants to feel like their most authentic self, you know it's like oh like your genre isn't going to fit or yours isn't going to fit. It's really welcoming. I think that's dope. It's hard to say what I want to see change because it's like someone's hot until they think they're hot and then they get like a head on themselves that's like kind of whack you know what I mean. So I don't think anything needs to change quickly. I think it's right where it's supposed to be. I think we're all connected and like enjoying ourselves and this is going to be one of the most important times in our lives as artists but if we want to like grow and play around the world and tour and you know make it more of a sustainable living than like having to work at a coffee shop or having to work at a restaurant which isn't something I mind but you know my dream is to be able to just sustain myself off music. Then the Vine needs more organization and it needs more of a sense of urgency of like

survival like you have to stay uncomfortable. You have to continue to work towards your goal if that's what you really want instead of being like no one's ever really made it per se out of Kalamazoo as a musician. That doesn't mean it's impossible, you know. So, I think what needs to change is, at least in my experience, is my belief in myself you know and I think that can apply to a lot of other things too but I can't spend time judging other people. That's a waste of time. 

 

I feel like there is still some room to intertwine better.

 

Yes.

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I feel like I met Cade and heard about like Caged Lotus and this whole other side of the scene that I had not been introduced to previously and I don't know if that's everyone's experience or not but it made it feel like there's different sides to the same scene.

 

Yeah.

 

I don't know what else to share about that but just trying to gather opinions on how to like better collaborate with people and you know bring each other up is kind of what I'm focused on with this stuff.

 

Love that. I love that.

 

Yeah, which seems kind of similar to what you're saying about like get uncomfortable, work towards a greater goal and believe that you can achieve that. Collaborate with people. Use your resources and notice what a big impact you can make upon doing that.

 

Totally. Totally. Yeah. I don't want to say it needs to be more professional, but I don't know if there's any other way to say it. You know, it's like text that person back, communicate, show up or like communicate if you're not going to show up. You know and I think sometimes one thing doesn't happen and then it's like it doesn't continue to work. You know like we have to continue to stay connected. I think that is the that's a big part of it all. You got to stay out of your own head too. That's what I struggle with a shit ton. 

 

Same. 

 

Yeah.

 

Let's get into some of like your biggest influences. Musical influences or anybody else who.

 

Anybody. Well, there's a lot. I'll start with music right now. Radiohead is a huge influence. They just do whatever they want and that's just the best. My friend put me onto them like a couple years ago and I still only scratched the surface of what they have done. I'm still stuck on... Are you familiar with Radiohead? I'm still stuck on Kid A, Okay Computer and In Rainbows like those three albums and I've yet to even touch like King of Limbs or Hail to the Thief or Pablo Honey or The Bends. Not even close to that yet, I'm taking my time or Moon Shaped Pool. Day Dreamer's a dope ass song though.

 

Yeah.

 

Yves Tumor super sick. I think he's pushing everything in terms of production and like he's the reason I wear these shoes right now. You know these are the only shoes I wear and I usually like stand like a fucking like punk ,you know like I just don't care you know like, he's just my guy. He's my guy. Um who else? Blood Orange is awesome. Kendrick is dope. Andre 3000's dope, Jimmy Hendrix. I could go on and on with music. Oh there's one band though called Smoke City they're from the 90s and my friend Anna, my friend Anna showed them to me and it's just super sick. It's kind of like Portishead a little bit. It's a little more of an acoustic touch. Yeah. And I'm getting into Prince a little bit too. There's one album called The Truth he has where he just plays the acoustic guitar for most of it is awesome. I'm mostly influenced by actors. I like Christian Bale a lot. Heath Ledger, Mahershala Ali, Daniel Deluis, Joaquin Phoenix, Jeremy Strong. They're pretty much I think they're all like method actors to some degree. I really respect that process of like taking a character and living in that character. 

 

Yeah like immersing yourself in a role.

 

Exactly. Like as human beings like there's no real definition of like who Alex Hoyle is like that's just a name you know like who myself is, is ever changing and always evolving. There's no singular expression to that. Directors, movie directors Alejandro G. Enritu he's super dope he did like The Revenant and Birdman. Alfonso Coron, he's dope. Damian Chizel. I got to like a director's mindset of like seeing kind of everything that goes on as opposed to just like being the lead actor and the lead role. It's really respect that like that perspective seeing the whole picture. Yeah. That's some. 

 

Are there any elements of the people that influence you or the musicians that influence you that shine through in your music?

 

Yes. I don't know how to answer that though. You can hear it in the production. There's a song on my next project that's definitely inspired by like the last song on Channel Orange by Frank Ocean. There is some very easily recognizable like Tribe Called Quest like nods, Kendrick Lamar nods for sure. In terms of flow and production there's one artist I like called Almeray super dope. I'm kind of hear her influence as well. So I think sonically you hear it but also like from a storytelling perspective here too. You know my next project is kind of a culmination of a lot of different influences and styles. You'll hear it when it's out. I can't keep talking about it.

 

Where do you get that like storytelling side of yourself?

 

Just from wanting to connect with people. I think a lot of my struggle is just feeling disconnected from people. I think because of like my racial background like being that mixed culturally you don't really feel like you have a home with one. You feel like you're around one and you're like I'm like you and then you get told like you're just kind of like me, you know. So you get caught as this like being that doesn't really fit, but you want to belong to something. So I belong to expression and art and music because I can create my own world there. You know I don't have to try to fit into something that's already a concept. I can create my own concepts, tell my own stories.

 

Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about like songwriting process if you're into that.

 

I hate it. I hate it. It just comes when it comes. It comes at four in the morning. It comes at two in the afternoon. It hits me right in the studio in the moment. There's one song on my next project that's first take, you know for the main vocal. First take boom. Song was done and I'd never done that before. Sometimes it takes time. Sometimes it takes a lot of refinement. Some of the songs are from a long time ago but sorry you asked about songwriting. I treat it like almost like an actor rehearsing a script like I'll write. I'll be alone. I'll run through a couple words. I'll walk around my room and then I'll come with a couple more words and then I like to rehearse it while I'm writing until I'm like off book and then that helps me write more. It's when I have like a good first section in my body like in my heart and my mind and sometimes I sit with that for a few days and walk around with it and listen to the song and then I'm in the shower and then three more lines come when I wake up the next day or something like that. So I live it. I think that's the best way to describe my process is whatever I'm doing I'm living.

 

Like the method acting thing.

 

Exactly.

 

I guess it could start in a lot of different ways right? Like what you hear first in a song probably isn't the same every time.

 

No not at all. It just starts with a feeling. It always starts with like a memory or an emotion that I need to work through. Something that I got to like process. It just starts from like an unprocessed feeling to a process feeling to sound super robotic about it. But that's a good way to talk about it.

 

Is creating music a spiritual experience for you?

 

Oh yeah definitely.

 

In what kind of ways?

 

I feel like my purpose on this planet is to help people. I feel like when I make something that I feel like it's going to help, I feel more connected spiritually to the things around me.

 

Do you feel like that is a theme that's in the music that you make? Does that like translate fairly easily do you think? Or do you think just making the music in the first place is helpful?

 

Making music in the first place is helpful for me. The feedback I've gotten from those that I've shown the music I'm working on right now is all been that response as well. Like I played it for a couple of my friends last night and they were like man, I just feel like my soul feels better. You know I told my I showed it to my therapist today. She was like I feel a lot lighter after that. I was like alright if my therapist is cool with it then like I must be doing something right.

 

I feel like for a lot of people creating music can be kind of like an emotional release. So a lot of like heavier emotions can get translated and the music might have served as a way to get that out, but what affect does that have on the people listening to it? It sounds like the music that you're making is leaving people with like a lighter hearted feeling.

 

I hope so. Yeah. I'm just going to ask the response I'm getting.

 

Yeah. I was going to try and ask you a question that I realized you were not going to want to get into probably.

 

Oh I mean ask the hard ones. Ask the hard ones.

 

Well, I was just going to ask about the music that you're creating now, the lyric content, what goes into it? How big of a part do lyrics play in the music that you're making currently?

 

Say it's down the middle, 50 percent 50 percent like production and lyrics you know. I'd say it's half and half right now. The production is super important. I ran verses over four or five different beats but then when I find the one that fits. It fits, but lyrics and what I'm saying... very important as well. You know I want to be able to make the music that I want to listen to and I want to be able to have on in the background if I'm doing something but if it's time for me to like invest in it and really notice some new shit then it's there too, because that's always been my favorite kind of music. You know like I don't know what the fuck Kendrick's talking about half the time, but then when I pay attention to it when I'm not scrolling on Instagram or thinking about what I have to do next and I'm in the moment with it I'm like damn like he's really spitting and I knew he was the whole time and I got that feeling. Now, I can really dissect it. 

 

Yeah because you can sense that the heart is behind it, and what's being said is meaningful.

 

Every human being has that ability. Yes.

 

Do you produce your own music?

 

Yeah.

 

What are some resources you use to do that?

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